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Post by MorningCoffee on Feb 8, 2015 19:34:36 GMT -5
I don't know about you guys, but sidegames and spinoff franchises have easily made some of my favorite games of all time. I find that a side-series brings in new companies to the mix that contribute unique ideas, charming stories, and full-on reinterpretations of the original work. Some side-games that I can hit off the top of my head are the Mario & Luigi games, Paper Mario, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Pokemon Conquest, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Party, Knuckles' Chaotix, Megaman Battle Network and the list goes on.
I've found that spinoffs often tend to age badly as video games develop, as many (but not all!) side-games have had a bit of a dropoff in quality when transitioning to all our fancy next-gen stuff. Is it a matter of identity or novelty in the concept?
So what are your thoughts on spinoff games and how they turn out? We could all definitely name some good ones and bad ones.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 16:07:04 GMT -5
I love side games. Actually, I like side games more than the normal ones.
I might say it would be that they are starting to become more of a focus of novelty, but, looking into them more, I say some change because of a loss of identity.
Take GTI. It was missing a composer (I forgot who, but umm.. look at bespinben's comments and you'll see). It also was missing the hunger system. It also was missing an actual rescue system. It also didn't mention anyone from the other PMD games. It focused much more on building than exploring. Although it had DLC, this is more identity loss I can think of than anything.
However, some changes are good. Mario and Luigi dream team was great, but didn't just stick to just the mario & luigi vs enemies format.
Kirby games... Now this crosses the border of side games and main games. I really won't call any of them side games. They just integrate different ideas every single game.
I just want to see MORE side games.
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Post by chakramaster on Feb 9, 2015 16:55:22 GMT -5
I find the side or spin-off games to be amazing. Most of them are usually more fun than the main series games for the most part. Usually with different companies getting to work on it, it gives the game an entirely new view or feel. Adding new elements while for the most part, sticking to the series elements that shouldn't be changed.
From adding new composers and designers. It adds some great creativity to the games. It's why the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games are on some of my top games list. Not only for story, but the soundtrack. Not saying the main series doesn't have a good one, but I feel with spin-off games...the designers, composers, and writers have more room to flex creativity rather being restricted to things that are normal for the main series games elements.
I'm still hoping to see more spin-offs (particularly PMD...hoping for a gen 6 soon lol) soon.
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Post by Ken on Feb 9, 2015 17:20:11 GMT -5
It also was missing the hunger system. It also was missing an actual rescue system. ...did you not play Gates to Infinity? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 17:52:33 GMT -5
It also was missing the hunger system. It also was missing an actual rescue system. ...did you not play Gates to Infinity? I played through it twice. FOR THE MOST PART that hunger system was gone. I didn't buy DLC. I'm cheap, and there wasn't anything that got me hooked after I played the game. As to an actual rescue system, I mean rescuing via wireless, that you actually go to a dungeon and rescue someone else, not streetpass. However, the co-op missions are nice. I don't want to start a GTI vs EOS thing here though. |
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Post by MorningCoffee on Feb 9, 2015 23:48:29 GMT -5
I think all the stir and stigmata over GTI is rooted in the 3D transition. It had the same killer soundtrack, charming story, loveable characters, and innocent aesthetic that the other PMD games had-- but it wasn't the same aesthetic. With a fanbase so deeply rooted in the series, I'm pretty sure this shook a lot of people up. I honestly had little problem with GTI as a game; my only gripe was that it was too short.  My friend recommending Dream Team to me is what finally got me into the Mario & Luigi series, and it's been a huge breath of fresh air in the RPG realm for me. (especially after sticker star) It's got the engaging gameplay and quirky spinoff humor that I crave. I intend to play the rest of the games, once I can get my hands on them... |
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Post by psycommando on Feb 10, 2015 3:54:09 GMT -5
I love side games. They tend to keep things fresh for me. And often you stumble on hidden gems, like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Pokemon Colosseum/XD, etc.. Not sure what to really add to that. The initial question is a little vague. I think all the stir and stigmata over GTI is rooted in the 3D transition. It had the same killer soundtrack, charming story, loveable characters, and innocent aesthetic that the other PMD games had-- but it wasn't the same aesthetic. With a fanbase so deeply rooted in the series, I'm pretty sure this shook a lot of people up. I honestly had little problem with GTI as a game; my only gripe was that it was too short. Personally, one of my main gripe with GTI(so far. I'm still not done with it, so we'll see if it will change) is that the plot feels "forced". The whole arc at the beginning with Gurdurr and the two Timburr just had me wondering "what's the point of that? Why are they all crying suddenly. What wrong with my partner ?".. And why is everything just "cascading into place", I mean it seems problems just solve themselves, and that everything is conveniently happening at the right time. I mean, sure that's really common in most games, but for some reasons it goes over my disbelief threshold, and I just can't get into the plot.. I don't get why the characters do things the way they did most of the time.. That makes them very distant and hard to relate to for me. And then, there wasn't a single pokemon I wanted to pick as main character.. There are pretty much no pokemon I like a lot from other gens that made it in. They removed the IQ and Gummy system, along with most of the little things that made the game a little more different than the main series pokemon games. Kangaskhan is not in charge of the storage anymore ;_; And, the sound that plays when the dialog is being printed on-screen is extremely annoying for some reasons in this game. I had no issues with that in explorers or rescue team. And you can't speed up the text rate in most dialogs. They made big improvements on the user interface and in some areas of the gameplay however. And the game is slightly more enjoyable. But it seems the thrill of adventure and mysteries is mostly gone in favor of something with a smaller scope, and more focused. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 8:01:50 GMT -5
Speedrunning PMDEOS right now at 4x speed.  It's music sounds so much different at 4x speed. Wigglytuff's guild especially. I like it. |
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Post by Soren on Feb 10, 2015 9:03:30 GMT -5
I love pmd games more than the main games
~shot~
But yeah gti feels forced, I mean it's not bad but it could have been much better
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Post by briman0094 on Feb 10, 2015 11:29:13 GMT -5
I love pmd games more than the main games ~shot~ But yeah gti feels forced, I mean it's not bad but it could have been much better I didn't really get that...I thought the story was brilliant. I missed some of the stuff like the Gummies (but not hunger, that sucked). The text was also uber-slow. But the story was brilliant; so I played it more like an interactive novel than a game. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 15:14:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean it just so happens you find Dunsparce and emolga
and it just so happens that you fell out of the sky and landed near your partner
and it just so happens that Virizion came and duncesparce has a crush
and it just so happens that you find these convenient magnagates
and it just so happens that umbreon comes to you to resolve that magnagate praeteritio
and it just so happens that swadloon was conveniently lost and found Espeon
and it just so happens that those fre--something voice recorders were left secluded to one room
and it just so happens that you're the only one to survive near the crystal thingy
and it just so happens that everyone comes and supports you at every turn
and it just so happens that your retailer is a super awesome crime fighter
and it just so happens that the magnagates always work
and it just so happens that you are the only person left to save the world cliche
and it just so happens that you everyone defies the law of... I'm not sure.. in the ending
and it just so happens that you NEVER FAIL
and it just so happens that there's only one concentrated group of bad guys
and it just so happens that minncino not a main character
and it just so happens that this game needs more minccino
and it just so happens that you can almost never say NO to anything in this game, unlike other games
and I don't want to go on with this. A lot of these arguments can be made for any game. I'm just trying to reason how it is forced.
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Post by MorningCoffee on Feb 10, 2015 17:23:06 GMT -5
might as well rehash this as a gti debate thread
ANYWAY
Many of the flaws that have been pointed out are somewhat consistent in the PMD games, but the narrowing of scope has definitely brought out these flaws, as there's not nearly as much to see looking past the flaws. This segways me into a point I've looked at when delving into all this convoluted who-knows-what.
I think that many of Nintendo's games both main and side have given way to targeted audiences, shying away from their original universal target. Frankly, I'm pretty darn sure that this has been for the worse. Why? Because a story that's relatable to everyone conveys the moral WAYYYY better. (This was why Rescue Team+Explorers and Super Paper Mario got such a huge cult following!) Aside from that though, there's also a lot more you can get away with when you target universally. We definitely don't see Nintendo's obscure semi-horror twists like Giygas and 02 as much anymore.
But wait, let me make my post contradictory to itself!
After some more thought, though, I've been thinking that it might not even be an intentional marketing strategy that's narrowing the scope of some games. It might just be my own delusions, but this change could be rooted in a lack of symbolism among the next-gen games. Anyone picking up what I'm putting down?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 17:41:24 GMT -5
Symbolism.. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that.
If I tried finding symbolism in games though, I definitely find it more in gba-DS games than newer games. But I have no specific examples..
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Post by briman0094 on Feb 10, 2015 18:41:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean it just so happens you find Dunsparce and emolga and it just so happens that you fell out of the sky and landed near your partner and it just so happens that Virizion came and duncesparce has a crush and it just so happens that you find these convenient magnagates and it just so happens that umbreon comes to you to resolve that magnagate praeteritio and it just so happens that swadloon was conveniently lost and found Espeon and it just so happens that those fre--something voice recorders were left secluded to one room and it just so happens that you're the only one to survive near the crystal thingy and it just so happens that everyone comes and supports you at every turn and it just so happens that your retailer is a super awesome crime fighter and it just so happens that the magnagates always work and it just so happens that you are the only person left to save the world cliche and it just so happens that you everyone defies the law of... I'm not sure.. in the ending and it just so happens that you NEVER FAIL and it just so happens that there's only one concentrated group of bad guys and it just so happens that minncino not a main character and it just so happens that this game needs more minccino and it just so happens that you can almost never say NO to anything in this game, unlike other games and I don't want to go on with this. A lot of these arguments can be made for any game. I'm just trying to reason how it is forced. Well, I mean, to be fair, you could do that to literally every story ever...that's sort of the premise of a story. It just so happens that Harry Potter was going to Platform 9 3/4 at the same exact time that Ronald Weasley was... |
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Post by psycommando on Feb 10, 2015 20:07:00 GMT -5
might as well rehash this as a gti debate thread
ANYWAY
Many of the flaws that have been pointed out are somewhat consistent in the PMD games, but the narrowing of scope has definitely brought out these flaws, as there's not nearly as much to see looking past the flaws. This segways me into a point I've looked at when delving into all this convoluted who-knows-what.
Well, the title DID say "thoughts on sidegames", and GTI is a sidegame, and we're writing down thoughts on it  Also, of course those are common with the other games, and with most game plots in general, its just the way they handled them. That's what I was saying, not that the game had those and not the others. Also, I think what you're saying about a lack of symbolism might just be an effect rather than a cause. 3D games usually take much longer to develop than most 2D games, and given development deadlines don't seem to have been adjusted for that, it seems some things get overlooked. Its also possible they focused their effort on another aspect of their games than the narrative. It could also be because of the over-reliance that game publishers have on their marketing department. Several game industry "gurus" that went to get their own indie studios all stated the same thing in the past. Like Chris Roberts, The Two Guys From Andromeda, etc.. And I think Julian Gollop kinda implied it several times too. |
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