shadowlucario50
PokéMusic Grunt
Currently Working On: Desperation Piano Medley
Posts: 39
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Post by shadowlucario50 on Feb 11, 2015 1:02:54 GMT -5
Oh, are we talking about Fates to Infinity? (Yes, misspell is intentional.) Then I'm gonna answer all these questions and my side of it, 'cause I feel bored. :< Yeah, I mean it just so happens you find Dunsparce and emolga And it just so happens that your partner chose this mission over the rest made by Emolga. and it just so happens that you fell out of the sky and landed near your partner And it just so happens that someone came to rush to find you because you fell from the sky. and it just so happens that Virizion came and duncesparce has a crush And it just so happens that Virizon is the fanservice Pokémon of everyone's dreams. and it just so happens that you find these convenient magnagates And it just so happens that... Um... There's a way to transport to other dungeons without walking...? and it just so happens that umbreon comes to you to resolve that magnagate praeteritio And it just so happens that Munna and her gang knew that Umbreon and Espeon found out about Magnagates. and it just so happens that swadloon was conveniently lost and found Espeon And it just so happens that Swadloon and Lillipup usually plays in Breezy Meadow and Inflora Forest. and it just so happens that those fre--something voice recorders were left secluded to one room And it just so happens that Keldeo traveled the Great Glacier to leave that Frism behind and that someone created that Frism in the past. and it just so happens that you're the only one to survive near the crystal thingy And it just so happens that the Voice of Life planned in advance for this Bittercold. and it just so happens that everyone comes and supports you at every turn And it just so happens that others will come against you until you help them understand the problem before they come to support you. and it just so happens that your retailer is a super awesome crime fighter And it just so happens that all characters have their secrets as well. and it just so happens that the magnagates always work And it just so happens you have to go through a dungeon once through until a smarter Pokémon makes the Magnagates even... Better than before... and it just so happens that you are the only person left to save the world cliche And it just so happens that Munna and her gang destroyed the others to make that cliche happen. and it just so happens that you everyone defies the law of... I'm not sure.. in the ending And it just so happens that... Friendship is... Magic.... Somehow. and it just so happens that you NEVER FAIL And it just so happens that you have to try to make yourself fail. and it just so happens that there's only one concentrated group of bad guys And it just so happens that this organization of bad guys is the only group before yours to find out about the Bittercold and have a motive to destroy the world before it becomes shattered by your partner's "Speech of Hope". and it just so happens that minncino not a main character And it just so happens that Axew is a main character out of all the Pokémon to make main characters. and it just so happens that this game needs more minccino And it just so happens that this game needs more Pokémon. and it just so happens that you can almost never say NO to anything in this game, unlike other games And it just so happens that most situations you are put in are made so you can't say no. and I don't want to go on with this. A lot of these arguments can be made for any game. I'm just trying to reason how it is forced. The reason why this game's plot could be forced comes from the fact that they really implemented the "Hope" theme. Everyone is losing hope in the world and nobody feels like they can trust one another. Bad things are happening to one another because nobody can trust each other, which only causes more grief and pain. But what rooted this feeling of distrust? Certainly not the Bittercold, since it was created by the negative emotions all around. They never really explain how this Bittercold actually functions, which brings us to creating our own theories. And boy, do I have a theory. My theory is that of a universe where each Pokémon Mystery Dungeon game are tied together (Rescue, Explorers, and Magnagate). In the Explorers Saga, Darkrai sought to destroy Temporal Tower, so he stole the gears that helped Temporal Tower flow. But that enough wouldn't have caused it to collapse, since Dialga could hold it up under his own power. Enter the Rescue Saga, where the meteor was falling towards the world. Violent earthquakes and unnatural weather caused unease to the Pokémon. When the meteor got closer, more quakes happened on the tower, weakening it stability. But, of course, the rescue team heroes asked Rayquaza to destroy the falling star, while the explorer team heroes defeated Primal Dialga and placed the gears back into place. The unease of the meteor was the spark for the Bittercold though. Because of the unnatural behaviors, the Bittercold was brought to past. Before, it was just a pillar of ice, but Darkrai probably fueled it with negative nightmares once it was unnaturally effected from the meteor's disturbance. The Rainbows of Hope has been long since disappeared, and the Great Glacier has been long since unexplored due to the harsh conditions that were worsen from Darkrai's interference. The Voice of Life, sensing the problem of the world, started getting many humans into the world, including the Magnagate hero. In the meanwhile, Darkrai is trying to take out the dangerous explorer team heroes out of fear. But, knowing if he fails, he'll just destroy the world anyways, so he confidentially escapes through a portal to the unknown, knowing that he'll succeed anyway in destroying them and the world with his last resort. Sadly, the Magnagate heroes put a stop to that plan by destroying his precious last resort, and Darkrai found himself as someone else in another universe. But that's just a theory. :> It's always fun to make them due to how much storyline is put into these wonderful spin-offs. I really enjoyed the Paper Mario series as well with their storylines as well. I still haven't played all of them to know each storyline to try to string them together, but I sure hope I can sometime in the future. Man, I was bored enough to answer all those questions and to make my theory in one post. Sheesh...
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Deemo R.
PokéMusic Grunt
Brrr...
Posts: 31
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Post by Deemo R. on Feb 17, 2015 5:05:11 GMT -5
PMD-Specific: I'd just like to say that even though I do have a soft spot for the PMD series, I believe it isn't that good of a franchise gameplay-wise. Decent, I'd say. The odd pseudo-roguelike approach they took honestly bogs down the games for me, and it gets a bit tedious going through even 20+ floors. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not really a fan of roguelikes in general, so I'm instantly biased in that regard. However, the games base themselves around the genre with their focus on the dungeon-crawling mechanic without being able to put any interesting spin on it. It opts for some of the basic roguelike formula (randomized tile-level generation, turn-based combat) while excluding the rest (varied item identity, permadeath, EXTREME difficulty). One might even call its approach to the genre a bit reductive. It's a very subjective thing, but I don't really see why the choice was made for PMD to be a roguelike game. The games try to engage you with a narrative that takes you across an interesting world with landscapes you want to explore. The roguelike architecture just doesn't allow this to happen in the actual gameplay. All of the environments are simply re-skinned dungeons with different names and a different set of enemies. The only truly distinguishing factor of these locations is the music, which is memorable and fantastic. Hunger is (was) a mild inconvenience at best - more of an excuse to waste bag space than anything. Job Mission structures are very limited, repetitive, and do not offer much variety from the experience of the main narrative. Exploring dungeons is neither incentivised nor enjoyable as soon as they start pushing the double digits in floor count. The whole experience becomes quite repetitive and dull, in that regard. It's a grind between cutscenes once you start reaching the later dungeons of the game. I don't want to seem wholly negative about the series, however. I did actually enjoy the IQ system and the wide assortment of items that you are encouraged to use in the dungeons. Recruiting Pokemon is fun, but the AI certainly isn't the brightest (GTI's wandering AI especially caused a lot of facepalming in my experience). I also liked the idea of GTI's "move leveling" system, though I feel the execution for it was lacking. The ability to switch to an "Away Team" was also a welcome addition. I actually believe GTI had a lot of good ideas for additions to the game, but made the mistake of eliminating a lot of things that prevented the previous entries from becoming too slowly paced. It certainly shows, too.
The series also lacks any of the ultra-punishment that roguelikes are known for, though this is for obvious reasons. They can't really expect their target audience to have any interest in pursuing a driving narrative (which has always seemed to be the incentive for continuing) if it is constantly being halted by ridiculously frustrating gameplay. Permadeath is obviously out of the question, though this disallows truly randomizing the environment because it would be unfair and disruptive to the narrative to suddenly change the dynamic of the level and the items within. The target audience for anything "Pokemon"-related most likely isn't that kind of crowd. That kind of scenario becomes more of a reality once you take on the post-narrative dungeons, but the general mechanics of the game still change the way in which it "challenges" the player. It's more of an endurance test than anything.
Speaking of the narrative, I can say that while I derive the majority of my enjoyment from the story of PMD, they aren't the most fantastically-written games. The stories follow a pretty generic line that serves to throw the player from one dungeon to the next. It works, so I don't fault it for that. Their simplicity is honestly one of the most charming things about them, to me. I don't tend to go into these games scrutinizing every detail of the story or writing (though with some of the "G-ifying" done to the writing in GTI, it feels like the game frequently wants to slap me across the face to remind me that I am indeed watching a Saturday morning cartoon), and I enjoy what I get because of that. When I reflect on my experiences with the game, the only things I really remember are story moments. The gameplay never sticks in my head.
Non-PMD: I typically don't see a lot of sidegames that I enjoy too much. Pokemon, in particular, tends to run a bit wild with all the spinoffs it has. I did enjoy Colosseum, Conquest, and some of the Ranger games. There are just a few too many titles for the franchise, personally. With other series, I've typically enjoyed anything that has real time put into its creation. The Mario and Luigi series continues to show its charm and has yet to lose me. Hyrule Warriors, I never bought, but it does look better and better each time I look back at it. Captain Toad is a bit too much of a thing I enjoyed in small quantities in the main series, but I can appreciate its clever design. Sonic Boom... anyways, Nintendo certainly is going the way of spinoffs recently. I feel that it's a good way for them to revitalize some of their staled franchises along with the new IPs they're trying to push. Maybe they'll change my general opinion of spinoffs. I love to see good games, plain and simple.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 10:51:35 GMT -5
PMD-Specific:A lot of details How can PMD be made better? Keeping it at the same universal target audience, how can the gameplay, and maybe story, improve? If I ever learn to remake it, I would love to know the best ways to shift it away from a grinding game. For one thing, I was thinking of a Golden Sun Approach with some type of energy (not HP) that replenishes as you walk. Instead of moves being normal pokemon moves and turns being an item or attack, I was thinking of re-instituting a turn as a turn in the TCG (finding certain energies, getting certain items), which requires much more skill to pull off. You sound like you know your stuff, so what are some things PMD needs to add?
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Post by MorningCoffee on Feb 17, 2015 12:41:30 GMT -5
PMD-Specific:A lot of details How can PMD be made better? Keeping it at the same universal target audience, how can the gameplay, and maybe story, improve? If I ever learn to remake it, I would love to know the best ways to shift it away from a grinding game. For one thing, I was thinking of a Golden Sun Approach with some type of energy (not HP) that replenishes as you walk. Instead of moves being normal pokemon moves and turns being an item or attack, I was thinking of re-instituting a turn as a turn in the TCG (finding certain energies, getting certain items), which requires much more skill to pull off. You sound like you know your stuff, so what are some things PMD needs to add? Deemo does bring up a lot of good points. As a huge fanatic of roguelikes, the somewhat tedious gameplay never quite bothered me, and I still get the same frustrating of fainting on 73F of Zero Isle as I do dying on The Binding of Isaac after getting Polyphemus or IPECAC, getting killed in Magicite, having a run ruthlessly stomped in Spelunky, or being slayed by Providence in Risk of Rain. In the original Mystery Dungeon game, Shiren the Wanderer, you'd get a clean reset every time you died. From my personal experiences, I'm pretty happy that PMD didn't give you a full wipe on death (because then there wouldn't be enough room for a flexible story). As for the tedium itself, the random events (Hidden Stairwells, locked walls/doors, Monster Houses, shops, etc.) were nice, but I think having a lot more random events could definitely smooth the sharp edges. Additionally, I've found that the combat can feel one-sided, especially against an exceptionally strong or weak foe. With a PMD fangame coming on the horizon for me, I've been trying to think of ways to improve PMD's combat such as special or sequenced moves, more practical and active skills, and just generally more options to make combat more dynamic and less straight forward. At first I thought it to be an impossible task, but after seeing how Mario & Luigi: Dream Team gave a huge upgrade to the ancient turn-based RPG combat system (Bros. Moves, Luiginary Attacks, dodges and counters, Jump/Hammer usages, Giant Battles, etc.), I'm confident that there could be creative ways to rework PMD's less-than-polished combat. I can't not agree with just about everything Deemo pointed out, because it's all true. PMD has always had a lack of endearing mechanics. Sure, it's forgivable, but there's still so much potential that could be used. PMD has an oddity that it's a Narrative-driven game disguised as a Mechanics-driven game. I think with enough effort it's entirely possible that it could be both. The story has always hit the nail on the head, but I can't say that I believe enough time was put into the mechanics and gameplay. The procedural-random dungeon generation, occasional reskinning, and turn-based actions further reinforces the idea for me that it's trying to masquerade as Mechanics-driven when it's clearly Narrative-based. GTI, between both it's stumbles and improvements, did bring in (among other nice mechanics) the occasional loose-dungeon areas that weren't randomly generated, which I enjoyed a lot. Despite this, I still think that both the concrete areas and many other mechanics of GTI could have been used a lot more. So, where to go from here? I always marveled good sidegames because they successfully craft a game that often has a simple and charming narrative with fun and entertaining mechanics. I can't control Spike Chunsoft and have them make another PMD that nails both the narrative and the mechanics; so if you want something done right, I guess you gotta do it yourself. ayy fangames
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Post by psycommando on Feb 17, 2015 17:22:13 GMT -5
I'd just like to say that even though I do have a soft spot for the PMD series, I believe it isn't that good of a franchise gameplay-wise.[...] I completely agree with you there. The gameplay gets boring pretty fast. (Well, if you're stuck in a "role-playing state of mind", and making up a story as you go it helps a little. But even then..) [...]Hunger is (was) a mild inconvenience at best - more of an excuse to waste bag space than anything.[...] Well, that's the point of resource management. That's one of the part I liked about the game, you had to make though decision between putting boosting items and passive stat boosting items for the pokes on your team, bringing more supplies, orbs, or leaving more room for collecting loot. Which I found enjoyable, even though tedious. I mean, there's no way you'll ever end up with a loadout that you like, but somehow that's fine.. For some reasons the fact that you can fine tune your stuff by going into the dungeon and using an escape orb, made it feel to me more like a real expedition into a really inhospitable place. Of course, that doesn't make the gameplay better, but I think resource management is pretty important in RPGs. Or management games. (One of my favorite games for resource managment has to be X-Com Ufo Defense and Apocalypse, the game looks horrible, and is very punishing, but there is something fun about raiding a place, picking up as much loot as possible and leaving with it before you get your ass kicked XD) Job Mission structures are very limited, repetitive, and do not offer much variety from the experience of the main narrative. Exploring dungeons is neither incentivised nor enjoyable as soon as they start pushing the double digits in floor count. The whole experience becomes quite repetitive and dull, in that regard. It's a grind between cutscenes once you start reaching the later dungeons of the game. I don't want to seem wholly negative about the series, however. I think the same. Though, I find that, the way they did the skypeak dungeon was much more enjoyable in that regard. Because after a set amount of floors, you'd get a station, and each station had a little something going on. Though, its too bad it didn't really have any impact on the gameplay on any of these floors.. And you didn't explicitly brought it up, but I feel they could have done so much more with boss battles, instead of being some static sequence of button spamming.. I mean, you have a little arena to move in during those, why not do something with it ? :/ And, you're not really being all that negative. There's a lot of bad about the PMD games honestly, but IMHO the goods offsetting all those bads really means something about the experience as a whole ! XD I did actually enjoy the IQ system and the wide assortment of items that you are encouraged to use in the dungeons. Recruiting Pokemon is fun, but the AI certainly isn't the brightest (GTI's wandering AI especially caused a lot of facepalming in my experience). I also liked the idea of GTI's "move leveling" system, though I feel the execution for it was lacking. The ability to switch to an "Away Team" was also a welcome addition. I actually believe GTI had a lot of good ideas for additions to the game, but made the mistake of eliminating a lot of things that prevented the previous entries from becoming too slowly paced. It certainly shows, too. I completely agree again XD The IQ system was soo good! And it helped a lot noticing your little proteges were becoming expert battlers/explorers XD I can't hope to ever fathom why they removed it in GTI.. Plus gummies really changing the rules, about the set base stats and etc.. Which was pretty nice! And the wandering AI was the same in any previous games. Its so bad.. Everytimes one of your 4 pokes is 1 tile too far from the group, he/she'll make a huge detour, and if you go chasing after them, it will only make things worse XD You need to tell them to wait there, and meet back up with them... And I wish the orders you could give them would be more useful.. I mean, a lot of them have no practical use, or have really confusing names. At least, you can send them home individually if things gets too bad, with little very little downsides! And move leveling was a great idea too! However, there was already the ginseng item that did nearly the same in earlier games. However it was ridiculously rare (I got one in my entire playthrough, excluding post-game(still not done), of PMD:Eos this far..) Though in GTI it felt like the moves would level-up a little too fast. I had 2 level up on quick attack in the same dungeon for example. Not sure if it scales though. And idk if you think the same, but the "team move" system was also pretty interesting. Kind of like a "limit-break". The series also lacks any of the ultra-punishment that roguelikes are known for, though this is for obvious reasons. They can't really expect their target audience to have any interest in pursuing a driving narrative (which has always seemed to be the incentive for continuing) if it is constantly being halted by ridiculously frustrating gameplay. Permadeath is obviously out of the question, though this disallows truly randomizing the environment because it would be unfair and disruptive to the narrative to suddenly change the dynamic of the level and the items within. The target audience for anything "Pokemon"-related most likely isn't that kind of crowd. That kind of scenario becomes more of a reality once you take on the post-narrative dungeons, but the general mechanics of the game still change the way in which it "challenges" the player. It's more of an endurance test than anything. Well, it sure doesn't sound like a bad thing that its missing those things XD I've read a lot of game design articles on games in the past, and read a lot of game reviews. And also looked at the worst games ever and tried to find out what they were doing wrong. And it seems that player punishment shouldn't be overdone, and you should use positive reinforcement instead. It serves no practical purpose in the game world gameplay-wise to overdo it, and besides, most of the time extreme punishment happens due to things the player has no control over, which is highly unfair and irritating. Speaking of the narrative, I can say that while I derive the majority of my enjoyment from the story of PMD, they aren't the most fantastically-written games. The stories follow a pretty generic line that serves to throw the player from one dungeon to the next. It works, so I don't fault it for that. Their simplicity is honestly one of the most charming things about them, to me. I don't tend to go into these games scrutinizing every detail of the story or writing (though with some of the "G-ifying" done to the writing in GTI, it feels like the game frequently wants to slap me across the face to remind me that I am indeed watching a Saturday morning cartoon), and I enjoy what I get because of that. When I reflect on my experiences with the game, the only things I really remember are story moments. The gameplay never sticks in my head. Again, I agree you XD What I find really fascinating about these games is that, while the story is very standard (you got all the stereotypical cast of characters, and a lot of things are highly predictable, etc) it still managed to just hijack my emotions repetitively, and actually convince me it deserved my suspension of disbelief! XD Especially Explorers of Sky, I don't know if its intentional, but the characters are made to be so relatable to. Especially the partner. All these things that happens to them, like having part of their money taken by their "boss" can be related to by people having had a job for example. And the whole thing about team skull getting you punished for their misbehavior can also be related by pretty much anyone that has lived something similar. And there are a lot of little things like that all along the story. Especially in what the character say when certain situations arises. And, the characters also tend to display a wide range of reactions to what happens, and there are times where, they make decisions that weren't the best or when they just don't want to handle the truth. Which also make them appear more flawed, and imperfect, but also more believable. Standard plot, great character development(for a video game or even tv show/movie). Simple, but effective. Well, I mean, GTI hasn't managed to do it yet for me unfortunately. But I'm not done with the game yet, so there's still hope ^^;
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Deemo R.
PokéMusic Grunt
Brrr...
Posts: 31
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Post by Deemo R. on Feb 18, 2015 0:59:40 GMT -5
[...]Hunger is (was) a mild inconvenience at best - more of an excuse to waste bag space than anything.[...] Well, that's the point of resource management. That's one of the part I liked about the game, you had to make though decision between putting boosting items and passive stat boosting items for the pokes on your team, bringing more supplies, orbs, or leaving more room for collecting loot. Which I found enjoyable, even though tedious. I mean, there's no way you'll ever end up with a loadout that you like, but somehow that's fine.. For some reasons the fact that you can fine tune your stuff by going into the dungeon and using an escape orb, made it feel to me more like a real expedition into a really inhospitable place. Of course, that doesn't make the gameplay better, but I think resource management is pretty important in RPGs. Or management games. (One of my favorite games for resource managment has to be X-Com Ufo Defense and Apocalypse, the game looks horrible, and is very punishing, but there is something fun about raiding a place, picking up as much loot as possible and leaving with it before you get your ass kicked XD) [...] And you didn't explicitly brought it up, but I feel they could have done so much more with boss battles, instead of being some static sequence of button spamming.. I mean, you have a little arena to move in during those, why not do something with it ? :/ [...] And idk if you think the same, but the "team move" system was also pretty interesting. Kind of like a "limit-break". The series also lacks any of the ultra-punishment that roguelikes are known for, though this is for obvious reasons. They can't really expect their target audience to have any interest in pursuing a driving narrative (which has always seemed to be the incentive for continuing) if it is constantly being halted by ridiculously frustrating gameplay. Permadeath is obviously out of the question, though this disallows truly randomizing the environment because it would be unfair and disruptive to the narrative to suddenly change the dynamic of the level and the items within. The target audience for anything "Pokemon"-related most likely isn't that kind of crowd. That kind of scenario becomes more of a reality once you take on the post-narrative dungeons, but the general mechanics of the game still change the way in which it "challenges" the player. It's more of an endurance test than anything. Well, it sure doesn't sound like a bad thing that its missing those things XD I've read a lot of game design articles on games in the past, and read a lot of game reviews. And also looked at the worst games ever and tried to find out what they were doing wrong. And it seems that player punishment shouldn't be overdone, and you should use positive reinforcement instead. It serves no practical purpose in the game world gameplay-wise to overdo it, and besides, most of the time extreme punishment happens due to things the player has no control over, which is highly unfair and irritating. Resource management, I can understand. For Hunger specifically, it's still a mechanic that I didn't quite see the purpose of. It's not specifically because it requires you to have something in your bag to counteract it, but because I don't know what value it really adds to the game. It serves as a deterrent from spending too much time in a dungeon, but there are already mechanics in the game that do just that. The difference between Hunger and the Magical Floor Sweeper is that Hunger pervades through the entire trek and the Floor Timer cannot be reset as Hunger can. By the way it's designed, Hunger demands more resources the farther you are in the game, because the way difficulty escalates in these games is simply by making the level longer. You have to rifle through certain floors just to find something to satiate it, which is more of a personal gripe. With the rest of the changes they made to create a less punishing roguelike experience, it surprises me that they would choose to go with a "punishment for spending too long" route instead of a system where you are rewarded for completing a mission/dungeon more quickly. If a system like that were present, I believe there would actually be an interesting dynamic for the player to decide whether they want to continue grinding and/or collecting loot or just zip through the mission and collect the guaranteed bonus. The faster/better (if applicable) you finish a mission, the greater the mission reward. To balance the options, you can simply place more items in dungeons that can't be found at the hub world (things of value). That way, the longer you spend in a dungeon, the more "unobtainable" loot you can gather. That already generates a new incentive for players to really think through how they want to approach any given mission. It's an idea that would have to be hashed out quite a bit, but I believe it gives something of interest to the players without exiting the realm of accessibility. I'd even say it expands the accessibility, though in a more interesting way than simply abolishing Hunger (a la GTI). I agree with you on the boss fights, but I feel like that's one of the general flaws with the tile-turn-based combat of roguelikes. The only real difference I find with boss fights is that I burn through my inventory more quickly. Unavoidable attacks are also quite the nuisance when they do so much damage, but I suppose there needs to be a challenge somehow. I'm sure they could find an interesting idea for how to spice things up with boss fights (I liked boss fights in GTI where you were fighting more than one enemy at a time), but I haven't given it a ton of thought myself. I do also like the team move mechanic, it was a very welcome addition that I liked to save for a hairy situation. Ace-in-the-hole options are always fun The fact that PMD is missing those things is precisely why I'm confused at the decision for the series to be a roguelike in the first place. The roguelike genre may sound brutal, but that's because it completely is. It's a niche thing, for sure. Pokemon and roguelikes do not stick out to me as a match made in heaven. I always hold out hope that the developers can create a hybrid system that brings something new and fun to the table, but it feels like Chunsoft went with the safe approach. The lack of "adrenaline-fueled" thrill at being liable to die at any time is one of the things many reviewers cite as being so hollow and lifeless about the series. They have the setting of a roguelike down, but the act is all too shallow. That's why I'd honestly be interested in seeing the series rethink its core gameplay, even though I know it won't happen. @mnchinoLike I said above, if it was up to me personally, I'd go back to square one with the gameplay and completely rethink the approach. I doubt I'd stick with the roguelike formula if I was given the freedom to do whatever, but it's tough to say whether people would be receptive to something so different from what they expect, even if it is an improvement. If I was sticking to the roguelike formula, I'd do like I mentioned above and implement a system that rewards players for finishing missions more quickly while adding items to dungeons that can't be obtained in the hub world, in order to create some small option weighting. And speaking of the hub world, I think it would be interesting to have more than one Pokemon town to visit. The series has been very limited in the scope of "visiting Pokemon civilizations" due to there being only one hub world, and I think it would be interesting to see that tossed up a bit. There must be another (to reference GTI) Post-Town-like community somewhere out there in the vast Pokemon world, right? Many of the characters come and go to and from these places, but you never really get to see them for yourself. That could add quite a bit to the experience if done properly. I know this is against the "Mystery Dungeon" mantra, but I believe it would be smart to avoid having dungeons completely randomized. The result has always been environments that are the same underneath their slick coat of paint, and it comes off as uninteresting to explore. The real Catch-22 of the situation is that truly interesting level design tends to come from deliberate, mapped design. Most notably, not random. GTI tried to make a compromise by offering some breakaway sections of the level that were intentionally designed and never randomly accessed, but that came across with only moderate success depending on who you ask. I can't really come up with a great approach myself, but perhaps an idea to consider is having levels randomized each under their own set of guidelines to establish some sort of basic structure for the level. This isn't truly random, roguelike design, but it's a thought. Not very developed on my part, but I like to brainstorm. Another thought is possibly having moves that can interact more with the environment at hand. What if Ice Beam or other ice type moves could freeze a stream of water and let you walk over it? What if you could dig through the wall with an item or certain move? Actually, that second one might be a bit broken. It could serve as a Legend of Zelda/Binding of Isaac-esque mechanic, however. Maybe there could be secret rooms on some of the floors (not the Detours, per se, an actual hidden room) that house an item that you'd really like to get? I'm spit-balling here, but there are a lot of possibilities. Speaking of items, there's a lack of passive items that alter your character in PMD, which could potentially add a bit more to the strategy. Something that extends the range of your attacks, or maybe an item that changes all your moves to the Poison type for a short time. There could be drawbacks to each of these, of course, but something to consider is that becoming better-equipped with these enhancements is a genuinely rewarding experience for players to go through. To avoid creating a scenario where the player is too powerful, enemies could simply become enhanced in similar ways as the game progresses. This is a natural timeline for games to follow, and it provides a challenge other than "the levels have become twice as long" to the player. You might feel like the stakes have actually been raised. It's easier said than done in this case, seeing as leveling up and learning new moves is supposed to do exactly this. I wish I was a keen enough mind to really understand why it doesn't work out, but I can't really say. Aside from that, some moves that leave a lingering trap tile for enemies would be a cool idea (not sure I'd give the enemies that ability, though). On the topic of traps, I really wish the enemies could activate them just as the player does. Without being able to see where they are, though, you couldn't really lure them into anything. I'm sure I'm going to remember many things once I finish writing this post, but these are just the little things buzzing around in my brain at the moment. Some suggestions on how to change up the gameplay, though I wouldn't call any of them "expert opinion", just a fan ramble. MorningCoffeeIt really sounds like you've got a lot of time in the roguelike genre under your belt. I definitely see and know the frustration of losing a PMD run late into the matter, but I agree that the temporary setback approach is the only way it could work. Random events seem to break up the monotony of sprawling through the dungeon, but I honestly feel like something is wrong with the foundation if the only way to make the experience work is to inject it with an almost nonstop barrage of random happenings. Maybe that's just a general trait of the genre, though. The sad part is that I'm not quite sure how to fix that problem with the basic foundation of the game. You gotta envy those creative minds behind game-making. "Veiled narrative-based" is actually quite an accurate way of looking at it, you're right. The game does tend to advertise itself a bit as mechanics-based (and picks a genre that falls right in line with that), but it is a simple guise. To be honest, I've always suspected the choice for tile-turn-based combat was more of a shoutout to the mainline games, among the slew of other things that parallel the main series.
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Post by psycommando on Feb 21, 2015 18:36:43 GMT -5
I really hated the "floor sweeper".. Its kinda cool how its putting stress on you and how its a little scary. But its just unneeded..
And I think the reason they went with the rogue-like gameplay is probably just because its relatively easier to play on a handheld, than a realtime RPG game. And its not as static as a fully turn based RPG game. However, I can't really think of anything to explain the focus on dungeons.. Having some levels set outside randomly generated dungeons could have been pretty refreshing !
I was thinking the exact same thing! It would have been really nice to stumble on some big pokemon city! Like there could have been a Colosseum where you could battle other pokemon teams. Or you could have actually met with the actual Federation that sends you stuff and give you ranks throughout the games! They could have done so much with that !
You can actually dig through walls using rock smash in PMD2. Though, its a little dumb because it doesn't deal damage to enemies, so you have to waste a move slot.. And there are special rooms that are locked with a key that randomly appears in some dungeons. There is also the Golden Room thing I forgot the name of... (When I stumbled on it, I forgot to bring a key and a drought orb, so I had to leave without anything.. And I never saw it again ;_; )
Stealth Rocks does leave a trap for enemies to step on in PMD2 at least. But it doesn't work all that well. I mean, its usually easier to just knock those enemies out instead of leaving a trap. The main issue is that, enemies can't be ambushed, because they respawn randomly. So traps aren't very useful on them.
Though, if there were "defensive" dungeon levels where the player and some npcs needs to defend a place, that could work!
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